Wikipedia:Teahouse

つがる, a Teahouse host

Welcome to the Teahouse!
Your go-to place for friendly help with using and editing Wikipedia.

Ask a question

Question forumMeet your hostsArticles to improveBecome a host

New to Wikipedia? See our tutorial for new editors or introduction to contributing page.
Note: Newer questions appear at the bottom of the Teahouse. Completed questions are archived within 2-3 days.

Help

Wikipedia

Shi Xing Mi (living person)

 Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shi Xing Mi
 Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shi Xing Mi (2nd nomination)

Hello, I've been directed here by admins from deletion review, I hope you might be able to halp me.

A short backstory.

I am a student of Master Shi Xing Mi and work in media, so several years ago I created a Wikipedia entry about him, which I subsequently edited and eventually added over 20 sources following the notice of deletion due to a lack of independent sources. Nonetheless, the page was deleted, in my opinion completely incorrectly.

Master Shi Xing Mi has hundreds of international sources, from prestigious publications such as Forbes and NYP, to government institutions in several countries and large international corporations. He is the most quoted and published Shaolin Master globally, with 4 books published by the likes of Random House and Mondadori, as well as the Co-Founder of two international wellness and fitness companies with hundreds of employees.

Despite providing over 20 such sources in the Wikipedia article, as well as hundreds more being available to anyone with just a single Google search, somehow a Wikipedia moderator deleted it citing "no independent sources". Without being sarcastic, clearly Master Shi Xing Mi doesn't own dozens of top international magazines and newspapers, global book editors, government institution and many other such sources. They are clearly impeccable independent sources.

The deletion seems thus completely unfounded and arbitrary, to me; furthermore, there are dozens of Wikipedia pages about living people who comparatively have a miniscule number of sources, yet are considered compliant. Oddly, Shi Xing Mi's own Master, Shi De Yang, has 1 (one) source which is his own website, yet it's considered acceptable. Shi Xing Mi, who by the way is mentioned in Shi De Yang's Wikipedia page, has hundreds of sources but is not acceptable.

I would be happy to understand how to create an appropriate page for my Master, or how to correctly edit and source the deleted one, if anyone would be so kind as to help me. Previously, I just added 20 sources, ranging from Forbes to Shaolin Temple, but somehow that was deemed insufficient. Would gladly do better if someone could help me understand what better should look like.

Thank you. 83.79.71.123 (talk) 14:55, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Actually, Shi De Yang's page is unacceptable and I will soon be creating a proposed deletion for the page. It has three sources, one of which is his own page (which cannot be reached) and two sources that aren't really independent of the subject.

Shi Xing Mi is referenced on the page, but not really. He's pictured with Shi De Yang, and thus has to be mentioned.

Looking at the second deletion discussion, I'm unfortunately with those who voted to delete the page. If I were to try and create the page now, I'd really struggle with the sources available. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:14, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

An dependent source is not necessarily a source owned by the subject. It is any source that exclusively contains info directly from the subject (link to our policy on that here).Also, calling New York Post a "prestigious publication" is rather ironic considering its status as a tabloid. Industrial Insect (talk) 15:25, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

At the following page I found links to PDFs of extensive in depth interviews and profilings by media ranging from the Handelsblatt (the most prestigious financial newspaper in Europe) to Men's Health (the most widely printed fitness magazine globally), Outside Magazine (the top outdoor activities magazine worldwide), Yoga Life (the most popular Yoga magazine in Europe), H Edition, BizOne, and several other internationally very well known publications. Articles are in English, German, Italian, Russian.

https://www.xingmi.info/press

Would I be correct in understanding that all of the above classify as very reputable independent sources? They certainly more than satisfy the criteria indicated in the Wikipedia information which was shared with me regarding appropriate references. They also certainly not classify as "tabloids" as you indicated the NYP to be (ignoring the links to Forbes and other non-tabloids I previously offered repeatedly).83.79.71.123 (talk) 17:18, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Would I be correct in understanding that all of the above classify as very reputable independent sources?

They range from unreliable to possibly reliable, certainly not "very reputable". See WP:RSP and WP:RS. Remsense诉 17:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

To be quite frank with you, no I don't think they would be classed as independent or reliable. Interviews and profiles are great to find out about stuff that the individual wants to tell you, they are not great for independent and unbiased reporting. This is even more evident by the fact that, yet again, these links are shown on his own website.

If he had plenty of reliable, secondary sources out there on him then fair enough, but currently I'm not really seeing any evidence of that at all. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 17:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

If the some of the most reputable international newspapers and magazines are not reliable sources, what are? 83.79.71.123 (talk) 22:24, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I linked you a guideline page and a big list of them. Remsense诉 22:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I read it, and to me most seem to qualify as both unquestionably reliable and clearly independent. Additionally, there are the official Shaolin institutions which were already linked in the deleted page, such as Shaolin Temple itself, Shaolin Europe Association (the European federation of the temple), etc.

If I was to recreate the page with all those sources together, would it be acceptable? 83.79.71.123 (talk) 06:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I recommend starting a draft and submitting it at WP:AFC. Remsense诉 07:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I will do. Also his master, Shi De Yang, I noticed his page was mentioned also as to be deleted; he is the most famous Chinese Shaolin Master alive, with documentaries made about him by BBC and National Geographic, I would like to fix his page too if I can.

Masters Shi Xing Mi and Shi De Yang are respectively the most well known and widely impactful and published international and Chinese Shaolin masters of contemporary times, I strongly believe they should be present in Wikipedia and their biographies preserved in its archives.

They’ve been the two most fundamental people, together with Shaolin Abbot Shi Yong Xin, in bringing the Shaolin philosophy in the 21st century. 178.197.210.16 (talk) 09:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Refer to the arguments made at the AFD page. As with everything, sources tell the tale. Remsense诉 09:57, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

If you have those sources where Shi De Yang has been in documentaries by the BBC and National Geographic then please, by all means add information from that documentary. It's not an article for deletion, it's a proposed deletion.

If you're actively improving it with appropriate sources then that proposed deletion template can be removed in an instant. Likewise, if you remove it without adding appropriate sources I will just take it to AFD instead which is almost guaranteed to be successful due to the lack of appropriate sources.

Please see WP:CITE, WP:RS and WP:RSP. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 12:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Please note that Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. ColinFine (talk) 17:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Whilst I openly and honestly stated to be connected to the subject, all sources I provided are independent (newspapers, magazines, government, corporate) and not connected to the subject nor to me.

I would also venture to say that most people who make a Wikipedia entry about someone or something, have at the very least a strong interest in the subject, so strong as to prompt them to take the time and effort to write about it; therefore the statement you make is not very realistic, in my opinion. 178.197.185.159 (talk) 13:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

All of the sources that you provided are on the subject's own website. All of them seem to be profiles or interviews. These are things that the subject wants you to read about them, or information that has been spoonfed to people. We cannot use this.

Currently, I have a tab open to "Shi Xing Mi". I'm on the news section on that Google search. What do I see? "How to fight against work stress? Shaolin monk gives tips", "Is your work life a living hell? Stay Zen with 6 tips from a monk" and "Zen in Zürich: The Dolder Grand lädt zum Meditation Retreat". These are the three articles I manage to find, the third is a booking for a meditation retreat in Zurich. The rest of the sources on this page are for things completely unrelated, such as viruses, 25 words you shouldn't use on the Chinese internet and stuff about Chinese shows you should watch. In total, there are 10 results on this search.

Do any of the three sources that are related to Shi Xing Mi seem as if they prove notability? Do these seem like reliable sources for information? I don't think they do.

There's also a very distinct difference between having a conflict of interest and taking an interest. A conflict of interest is where you have a direct link to an individual or organisation, such as yourself, and good on you for declaring it. Taking an interest is seeing something, going "neat" and starting to research.

One of these requires a declaration on your user page, the talk page of the subject or every edit you make regarding a subject and may, in cases of disruption, result in you being blocked from a topic or Wikipedia as a whole. One of these lets you edit away to your hearts content. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 13:35, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

I did the same Google search and got 3 TED talks, a link to the publisher of one of his books, two Universities, two Shaolin institutions, of course his personal website and social media, some of the articles you mention, etc. As bias as I might be, you seem far more bias in the opposite direction. TED, two Universities, Palta and Apple corporate news, his book by Mondadori (biggest publisher in Italy) didn't appear to you? They are in the first search results page for me. Honestly, for all your virtue signaling objectivity, it's evident that you have zero willingness to be truly objective and fair in assessing that there is a tremendous volume of independent sources of all possible types, from media to institutions, spanning several decades, and that the deletion is amply debatable and should at least warrant reconsideration. The threats you make of blocking someone (me) who has openly and politely presented an alternative case, honestly stating a connection with the subject, is only further indication of no objectivity in the discussion but rather a cancel mentality if someone "dares" question something clearly illogical: deletion due to insufficient independent sources of someone with hundreds of independent sources spanning decades. Do as you wish, I've already invested too much energy in this matter and I'm sure Masters Shi Xing Mi and Shi De Yang will live happily and successfully without Wikipedia entries. It's just silly that the two most respected and published modern Master of a very famous tradition won't be listed because of some random administrator's bias and inability to accept a mistake.

213.7.204.230 (talk) 07:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

To put it very bluntly: these are not impressive figures you are citing. Even if they were being represented proportionately, which they are not. He has not given three TED Talks, he has given three TEDx talks, which mean next to nothing for notability.

You have been pretty disrespectful of the time of other editors trying to help you and explain site guidelines, and are refusing any and all suggestions citing policy. You're not going to stonewall your way to getting an article, there is either notability or there is not, and it seems there is not. Maybe he would survive AfD, but you're not going to badger your way into making everyone change their mind at once without actually engaging with what our notability policy says. Remsense诉 11:46, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

There is not then. As you said. Both Masters Xing Mi and De Yang frequently speak to audiences of thousands (for example at WEC, see photos), are published by major editors, and have founded companies and schools which employ hundreds and train thousands. But clearly there is no notability. Ok, they’ll both survive without Wikipedia, I did my best, however poorly. Thank you for your time. 62.228.232.10 (talk) 14:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Using institutional or project GIT repositories as references

Dear ALL, I am interested if using institutional/project GIT repositories (be it GitHub, GitLab or other) as references is OK for English Wikipedia? Thank you (please tag me in response) -- Zblace (talk) 07:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Zblace. These are websites where users can largely add whatever they want. Although I am certain that much of the content is valid and useful to actual developers, much of it is also malicious nonsense, or does not work properly. Caveat emptor is applicable. Websites consisting largely of User contributed content without editorial control are not accepted as reliable sources on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328 I can imagine that being the case in general, but for institutions running the project this is not the case as they both have internal editorial control and operate in different way when it comes to releasing open code, text, media...where GIT is just the format on the platform. Zblace (talk) 20:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Cullen328, I beg to slightly differ...

If an article mention a project kept on a git-server, a link to it WOULD be appropriate. Sources are usually best considered in light of WHAT they are expected to confirm. A historical example could be of the Pravda frontpage confirming Stalin's demise; the publication was as "honest" as Hitler's propagandist Goebbels, but in an article about the Soviet Union, such a reference would be perfectly valid as evidence of when and how his passing had been made public to the survivors of his policies. Autokefal Dialytiker (talk) 07:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

There is editorial control on everything though, especially on a repository maintained by an institution. It will only become part when reviewed and merged by a collaborator/owner, meaning they should be accepted as reliable sources, the only concern I can think of would be the content possibly changing over time Zootcats (talk) 09:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Malene Heerup English

My submission has not been accepted. This is the reason that was given: "he content of this submission includes material that does not meet Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you."

Could someone have a look at the draft and be more specific? Which inline citations do not Wikipedia's minimum standard and why?

Thank you Milaefema (talk) 08:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Milaefema and welcome to the Teahouse. See links given in the reason for more info. CanonNi (talk) 08:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

what?

Keep4getn1 2001:5B0:2467:4DD8:DDEA:46F:EAA6:F881 (talk) 23:04, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Milaefema: for privacy etc. reasons we have strict referencing requirements for articles on living people (WP:BLP), with inline citations to reliable published sources being required to support anything potentially contentious (which basically means any substantive statement which anyone might want to dispute or even wonder where it's come from) as well as all personal details such as DOB. You also need to ensure that the source you're citing actually supports the information against which it is cited: for example, you're stating that Malene's mother is Liselotte Taarup, but you're supporting that statement with a source (ref #6) that doesn't seem to even mention Malene. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Milaefema: In addition, the Education section has no inline citations and there are many exhibitions listed without inline citations. GoingBatty (talk) 03:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Publishing

Overwhelmed with source coding and wandering through the labrynth for answers. But, now feel my article is completed (in Sandbox) and ready to publish. Haven't a clue how to do that; see no button or menu item to proceed. Please provide easy-to-understand guidance. Thank you. Artleytoons (talk) 12:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Artleytoons and welcome to the Teahouse. You probably won't want to hear this but the draft feels unready for publishing, mostly because it is an autobiography and isn't very neutral. CanonNi (talk) 12:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Artleytoons Put the "code" {{subst:submit}} on top of it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:50, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the reply. I'll take it down. Artleytoons (talk) 16:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Artleytoons: Although we generally deprecate the writing of autobiographies, you as a subject clearly meet our requirements for inclusion in Wikipedia, and what you wrote was not overly promotional. I encourage you to restore and improve it (with the emphasis on ensuring that every statement is cited to an independent source), and submit it for review. When an article about you is published, you might consider openly-licensing on of your cartoons, as an example of your work. See also WP:FAQAS. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

thanks for notification and advice. I will give it another try. I liked your suggestion of posting one of my cartoons. 73.216.154.203 (talk) 19:57, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Per your suggestion, my attempt to upload one of my own cartoons netted a reponse that I did not have permission; that such an action required a level of which I have not yet risen:

<<The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Autoconfirmed users, Administrators, Confirmed users>>

Puzzlling, as I was able to upload the photo without the admonition. Then again, my novice status may have caused me to neglect some measure in the protocols. Artleytoons (talk) 02:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Artleytoons: Please upload it on Wikimedia Commons, not here. I should also have mentioned that you will need to follow the process at c:COM:VRT, to verify that you are really Steven Artley. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, yes. Eventually, I discovered the Wikimedia Commons upload to be the procedure. Article was modified as suggested, noticed it was moved to DRAFT status; meaning it is not in the submissions queue for review? Understandable, for perhaps my ambitious overreach. Considering a hefty reedit, honing down to more basic -- focus entirely on Editorial Cartooning and (related) satirical political podcasting Good thing I didn't add in the brain surgery while tap-dancing bit. Artleytoons (talk) 15:04, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

History

It is made up of 28 states and 8 union territories and its national capital is new delhi 197.90.65.250 (talk) 21:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello IP editor, welcome to the Teahouse. Do you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia? 57.140.16.57 (talk) 21:14, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Deepika Padukone 197.90.65.250 (talk) 21:15, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello again IP editor. Have you a question about editing the article Deepika Padukone? ColinFine (talk) 22:10, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I suspect the answer you are looking for is India. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:33, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

When looking for references while editing

Where is a reliable search engine we should usually use when we do our research? Wikipedia itself, google, etc.? Qb1Coach (talk) 02:14, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

An easy one is Google News, Apple News, or some other news aggregator, which will bring up a lot of sources. It's important that for a Wikipedia article these be reliable though. You can visit WP:RSP for a database of some commonly discussed reliable/unreliable sources. If you can't find it there, ask another editor, or trust your judgement of a source and WP:BEBOLD and use it. TLA^tlak 02:20, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Google Scholar is also a useful resource. Once you have 500 edits and your account is 6 months old, you can access WP:The Wikipedia Library, where you can access normally-paid resources for free. Ca ^{talk to me!} 06:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

I also like the Internet Archive at archive.org. They scan a lot of free books, including recent ones, and they're a great resource for out-of-copyright stuff. They aren't super user-friendly, though, so you have to know to choose the section option, "search text contents," for most searches after you put something in. And putting quote marks around specific words and phrases is helpful if you want to make sure you only get (for example) "Beverly Hills" and not every appearance of the word hills.

Other great archives are loc.gov (US Library of Congress), and hathitrust.org (a big, full-text database of older material).Fortunaa (talk) 10:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@Qb1Coach: it gladdens my heart to see a new editor taking the need for good sources so seriously! Another resource I have found helpful is my local library. They have access to resources beyond what we mere mortals can do...--Gronk Oz (talk) 11:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

For when you're just looking for more recent information or sources, just searching for keywords and sorting by a time frame is pretty useful. For example, when I look for newer sources for 2020–2022 catalytic converter theft ring I just search up "catalytic converter theft ring" on Google, hit news and go to "Tools" and search by time.

It may seem obvious to some, but I didn't actually realise you could sort by time frames before Wikipedia.

As another useful tip, when you come across a paywalled source, use archive.is. If you archive the page through that it'll bypass it. That also works for stuff that's region locked, like if you're in Europe and are trying to access some US news sources. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 12:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Oooh... I've tried this on archive.org but it doesn't work. I'll try it at archive.ph/.is/.today next time. Thanks, Cremastra (talk) 21:37, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

BHL is useful for anything biology-related. Cremastra (talk) 21:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Where to get help with tables?

Sorry I'm back so quickly, but this kinda goes with the above question. Where would I go to request help with a table? That's my one pet peeve when writing tornado articles, the tables absolutely kill me every time (lol). MemeGod ._. (talk) 17:51, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

This is fun Theshallowsboston (talk) 17:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

? MemeGod ._. (talk) 17:58, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@MemeGod27: Welcome to the Teahouse. Does Help:Table have the answers you're looking for? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:14, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Yea, a little. Tornado tables are very challenging, so it does help, but doesn't cover the topic I was looking for. MemeGod ._. (talk) 18:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@MemeGod27: You're not going to get much help unless you can be more specific. What topic are you looking for? What are "Tornado tables"? Which article(s) are you having problems with? Bazza 7 (talk) 19:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Based on editing history, it may be related to Draft:Tornado_outbreak_of_April_2,_2024 RudolfRed (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

It is. Basically, a tornado outbreak table is a table with individual tornadoes, that has the EF rating, the location, coordinates, a description, damage, and wind speeds. For a good example, see Tornado outbreak of March 13-15, 2024, and scroll down to "Confirmed Tornadoes". It's probably the best visual representation I give you. MemeGod ._. (talk) 19:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

And the draft I am having problems is in fact Draft:Tornado outbreak of April 2, 2024. I mainly just need help adding themMemeGod ._. (talk) 20:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

You could just lift the source code from that page and edit the values to your liking. If you end up doing that, you may want to attribute appropriately by linking to the page you took the code from just to be safe. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@MemeGod27: I've added some information to your talk page. Bazza 7 (talk) 09:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Newcomer Writing His First Wiki Page

Hi,

This is my first time in the Teahouse. I've been thinking to write/correct some articles. I have this hesitation to not write anything. How did you overcome this problem in your early wikipedia days? Knowledgeelephant (talk) 19:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think you really do get over that hesitation as you're always learning new stuff on Wikipedia, but there are things that will at least make you feel more confident. We don't often recommend making your first article as your 7th edit after all.

What we do recommend however is that you head over to the task hub, where you can find such things as citation hunting. Citation hunting will teach you how to do quite possibly the most important thing on Wikipedia, how to cite things and what to use as citations. WP:RS, WP:RSP and WP:CITE will come in handy for this.

Another thing that'll help you for when you're feeling ready to start an article is WP:BACKWARDS. This is why I suggest that you do citation hunting early into your career, so you know that working backwards is an absolutely terrible idea and will only result in hours of work getting canned. This is a very common trap for new editors.

As for thinking about correcting articles, first, citation hunting. Good stuff. Second, be bold. The worst that could happen is that your edits get reverted or you get trouted, so what? Most editors experience either of these things at least once, it's almost like a rite of passage.

Another thing you can do as the step between making corrections to articles and making your own articles is to find a WikiProject that you like the look of, then find their start or stub class articles. These are the lowest rungs on Wikipedia's ratings ladder, and are in need of a lovely editor such as yourself to fix them. Find yourself a start or a stub to adopt, then get to work improving it.

Just as an aside, Wikipedia also has a Discord server, so if you're looking for some quick help you can always head there. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

These are encouraging words. Thank you! Knowledgeelephant (talk) 07:13, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

@Knowledgeelephant You may be interested in reading the "interviews" with experienced editors about their early experiences, now collected at User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Yep I read. I have my own story related to this wiki journey. Thanks! Knowledgeelephant (talk) 07:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Questions about creating new article

Hi, I want to create a new article for an upcoming movie is there an easy way to create it? If there are steps, what should I do for that new article to be created? I've never created an article on Wikipedia before so I'm very confused Thanks again TurtleStar00 (talk) 20:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I'd recommend taking a look at Your first article and then, if appropriate, creating the article at Articles for Creation. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, much appreciated TurtleStar00 (talk) 21:32, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, TurtleStar00, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that there really is no easy way to create a new article. This is not because somebody has decided it should be difficult, or because nobody has put any effort into providing a quick method: it's because Wikipedia nowadays has high standards for its articles, and meeting those standards takes skills that are not particularly relevant to most other kinds of writing. (Note that many older articles do not meet these standards, but nobody has been back to improve or delete them: see other stuff exists).

The absolute first step in creating an article is to find the independent reliable sources : which are a non-negotiable requirement to establish that the subject is notable in Wikipedia's sense. Dozens of people every day try to create articles without doing this first: in most cases, the subject is not in fact notable, and every single second they spend on their doomed attempt is effort wasted.

It is unlikely (though not impossible) that enough independent material has been published yet about an upcoming movie: see CRYSTAL. ColinFine (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

How do I add a picture or image in an existing article? TurtleStar00 (talk) 21:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Check out this tutorial. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

May I have some advice on a draft I'm making?

Hello, I'm making a draft and it's one of my first times so I want to ask, do you think this draft has what it takes to be a stub article for now at least? I'm new here so any advice would be great for me! Thanks a bunch, I'll link the draft here: Draft:Sidi_Bishr_Mosque. Moe the Alexandrian (talk) 23:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Moe the Alexandrian, and welcome to the Teahouse. Please see the reply I have just given to the item above this, #Questions about creating a new article. It doesn't look to me as if many of the sources you have found meet the requirements in golden rule, and if they don't they will not contribute to establishing that the mosque meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability. ColinFine (talk) 23:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Notability of the play God of Vengeance

Hello! Before I start writing an article, I want to see if it's notable. Currently, the wiki link for God of Vengeance redirects to its author, Sholem Asch. I think the play is significant primarily because of its performance in English: the cast were charged and convicted (but won on appeal) in 1923 for obscenity, as it featured the first lesbian kiss on Broadway, and also banned in London in 1946. It also has a related play with its own article, Indecent (play). I am, admittedly, having a bit of trouble finding coverage. There are several NYT articles, and this, but given the debacle about its US staging, I feel like maybe I'm just not looking in the right place? Since Google has gone seriously downhill in terms of its ability to search, I'm just... not sure where to go next. Quadriporticus (talk) 01:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Maybe newspapers.com? Some of the things you found look decent. TLA^tlak 01:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Not all of your references need to be on the Internet. Can you find good reference books that mention the play? Can you find old newspaper articles on microfilm at a public or college library? Start collecting what you can find on God of Vengeance. If you come to a dead end put the project aside for a time, and come back to it a little later. Perhaps you could find enough to add a paragraph to the Sholem Asch article, and later on a separate article about the play can be possible. Take your time, read over Help:Your first article, Help:Referencing for beginners andWikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources and remind yourself you have all the time in the world to decide if a notable article is possible. Best wishes. Karenthewriter (talk) 02:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Quadriporticus Consider digging for sources at [1]. With books like [2], I don't think WP:N is a problem here. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Scrolling table, frozen headings

Hello, can tables which have many columns, or rows, be configured to scroll? And how about freezing headings, like a spreadsheet?

I could not see an option in Help:Table, I experimented with vertical header, it helps a bit but isn't always good to look at. I imagine that it may not be possible due to the compexity of cross platform/browser support. Thanks--12think (talk) 04:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@12think: What you want is called the {{Sticky header}}, if I understand right. RudolfRed (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: Thanks it worked great :-) I couldn't see template for a sticky 1st column, but it doesn't it matter too much, this has helped a lot. Thank you. 12think (talk) 06:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

If you just want to have sticky headers for your own convenience, there is a gadget: go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets, scroll down to Testing and development, and tick 'Make headers of tables display as long as the table is in view, i.e. "sticky" (requires Chrome v91+, Firefox v59+, or Safari)'. This will affect every table that you browse, but will not change it for other readers. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 09:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Who can tell me what this article needs and why it was declined?

Hello, I'm Random Wikishow!

I wonder why this article was rejected. Is there a fixed grammar error in this article or the references are unreliable? Tell me, please. Random Wikishow (talk) 06:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Random Wikishow and welcome to the Teahouse. You have created multiple article drafts. Could you specify which one you are talking about? CanonNi (talk) 06:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @CanonNi. I am talking about "Draft:Institute of Good Manufacturing Practices India (IGMPI)".

There is another one I created, and I was talking about a Somali journalist called Draft:Abdiaziz Ali, all his information was deleted, and I don't understand why. Random Wikishow (talk) 06:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Random Wikishow. Looking at your IGMPI draft, I can see that you have made all the same mistakes as hundreds of other people do who plunge into the challenging task of creating a new article before they have spent time learning about how Wikipedia works. If you were starting to learn engineering, would you make your first project to build a car from scratch? If you took up a musical instrument, would you arrange a public recital as the first thing you did? No, you would practise on less demanding projects while you learnt the craft.
I would very strongly advise you that you will save yourself a great deal of frustration and disappointment if you forget about creating a new article for several months, while you gradually learn about how Wikipedia works (and most particularly about Verifiability, reliable sources, and Neutral point of view) by making improvements to some of our six million existing articles..

Looking at the list of references, it doesn't look to me as if a single one meets the criteria for a reliable, independent sources with significant coverage of the subject, and therefore not only do they fail to show that the Institute meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, but most of them add nothing whatever to the draft. The purpose of a citation in a Wikipedia article is to verify a claim in the draft, nothing else; and the great majority of such citations should be to sources wholly unconnected with the subject. ColinFine (talk) 17:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Institute of Good Manufacturing Practices India (IGMPI) is written in corporate-marketing-speak (which I suppose ChatGPT and the like can churn out with ease). Sample: IGMPI is at the forefront of technological advancements and has earned recognition as a robust and superior provider of education and training platforms for professionals and students in GMP, Quality Assurance and Control, Pharma, Food & Nutrition, (followed by a lot of others, somewhat Trumpishly capitalized). The body text of Draft:Abdiaziz Ali reads: Abdiaziz Ali is a Somali journalist known for his work for Somali Inside News. Abdiaziz Ali was born in Mogadishu, Somalia. That's it. That's all. Well, if he's known for his work, then reliable sources (of course unrelated to Abdiaziz Ali) will have written about it. What have they written, and where have they written it? -- Hoary (talk) 07:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

A note: those two drafts were Declined, not Rejected. The second would have meant that the reviewer saw no potential in the topic/content succeeding as an article. David notMD (talk) 09:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

American Wiki Editors

Please help me. American Wiki Editors took my large sum of money and disappeared after promising me to put a wiki page. Nothing happened even after passing one year. American Wiki Editors do not exist anymore. Please help me what shall do? Are there any genuine wiki editors who could potentially put my profile back on Wikipage. Daichoo (talk) 07:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Daichoo, unfortunately it sounds as if you have been scammed. People do not 'have profiles' on Wikipedia – encyclopedia articles are written by volunteers when someone meets Wikipedia's inclusion criteria, which generally require that multiple people unconnected to the subject have written significant amounts about the person, without having been fed information by that person. If you do not meet those criteria, then unfortunately there is no way to have a Wikipedia article written about you. All offers to get a Wikipedia article about you written and published for a fee are at best misguided, and more often scams. Tollens (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

For your information, Wikipedia has articles, not profiles. The distinction is that articles about people call for indepedent, published references that verify the facts which make a person Wikipedia-notable. If you truly believe that you are so famous/notable that people with no connection to you have written about you, then you could try using WP:YFA to create a draft about yourself, even though Wikipedia strongly advises against attempts at autobiography (see WP:AUTO). David notMD (talk) 13:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

You could possibly report them to paid-en-wp@wikipedia.org with a copy of the email. We won't be able to recover the money but other people could be protected from the same thing happening to them. Industrial Insect (talk) 16:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Stories like this one make me think that scammers should be treated like traitors were in England in times of old; on the other hand, I do also wonder at the gullibility of (some) victims... Autokefal Dialytiker (talk) 16:26, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Citing FOI responses.

Hello, I am looking to add the Axle Loadings and Route Availablity of a train that operates in the UK. These details come from both a written response and partially redacted documents that were released under a FOI request. The written response and documents are both hosted at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/axle_weight_limits_in_the_anglia if that is of any use?

Thank you in advance. Louisp52 (talk) 09:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

That's an interesting question. Generally such sources are not regarded as published, and cannot be used; but the question is whether WhatDoTheyKnow counts as a) a publisher, and b) a reliable publisher.

The best place to ask about this is on the Reliable sources noticeboard; but searching the archives of that board, I find this discussion from 2021, which seemed to accept WDTK as a reliable primary source. ColinFine (talk) 17:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Seeking Guidance on Editing Concerns and Website Citation Issue

Dear Wikipedia Teahouse Team,

I hope this message finds you well. I recently embarked on contributing to Wikipedia, aiming to enhance articles with relevant and insightful information. I’m querying about a recent warning that I received in Wikipedia. I had only been a few days as an editor on wikipedia and I was just teaching myself as I go, and I dived in making edits and additions aiming to reach a personal goal of 100 edits to be in the top 1%.

Suddenly, I received a warning that I had been linking and citing too much to one site that I’ve been a longtime fan of and that has given me a lot of inspiration and then suddenly my additions were reverted. I have also made edits citing other online publications like The Guardian, www.themarginalian.org…but for my first wikipedia edits I’d found it faster and easier to find, scan and cite articles from www.creativeprocess.info that I particularly found interesting since they are a reliable source of primary source interviews and all the biographical information of the guest is concentrated in one place at the top of their articles. (This is probably a little lazy on my part.)

I had planned to cycle through my favorite publications (New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, The Guardian) in blocks of ten, adding citations, although most of my favorite sites and substacks have paywalls making them harder to cite or access for wikipedia readers who aren’t subscribers.

I’m sorry for any confusion but now I've become aware of the protocols. What should I do next?

I believed I was adding information that was germane and not previously included on the pages, as I had received notifications to keep going when I did ten edits and a thank you from a wikipedia editor on my edit of True Detective: Night Country and took that as a signal to go on with what I was doing. I only received one warning about citing one publication too much, and as soon as I saw the warning I stopped adding edits. I fully understand if my own edits are reverted because I was excited by the wikipedia process and in the beginning relying mainly on one source and may be biased since it’s a publication/podcast I’m familiar with and enjoy. I am reaching out to clarify the steps I can take to rectify the situation, to enquire about the nature of the block and to inquire if it’s a permanent measure or if there's a possibility for reassessment?

I wouldn’t like for my initial over-eagerness to revert or delete other editors’ work, especially if theirs provided germane information to other wikipedia pages. I appreciate your feedback on my editing. I aim to take a slower approach to wikipedia going forward. Thanks for helping me out! Lifelong learner837 (talk) 10:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

You have not been blocked, you have simply had your efforts reverted. Using podcasts and stuff of that ilk as well as primary sources is generally ill-advised. Please see WP:CITE, WP:RS and WP:RSP.

What I'd advise in the future is that, when you're looking to add to an article, use Google and filter by news, it'll be just under the search bar. That way you'll be able to find far more useable content.

As for paywalls, look up archive.is. You can archive sources with that that would otherwise be paywalled or region locked so that anyone can see them. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 11:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Referencing

i need to learn more on referencing

'Mafetana' (talk) 12:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Some easy ways to learn how to cite things and what to cite are to read up on WP:CITE, WP:RS, WP:RSP and WP:OR. Another good way to learn how to cite is to learn while doing, so you can head over to citation hunting. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 12:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Practice in your own Sandbox, pasting to article only when satisfied. That way your errors are not seen as edit after edit after edit on an article's View history. David notMD (talk) 13:43, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft and edition

Good afternoon,

I left a draft 2 months and a half ago about the history of Brunsviga. I could see there were so many topics that the delay needed to ckeck the draft could last 2 monthes (even more). Do you know how long it can take ?

thank you very much for your answer. Best regards Thémisté (talk) 12:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello amd welcome. There is no way to give you a specific timeframe for a review. It could be 5 minutes, or three months from now. Reviews are conducted in no particular order by volunteers. 331dot (talk) 12:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Just on a quick check I can see several pieces of text that have not been cited and citations placed prior to punctuation (so a citation before a full stop, stuff like that). The prior is an issue that could prevent your draft from being accepted, the latter is a smaller issue that means you probably need to look at the instructions for citations.

As for how long your draft could take to get a review, you could be waiting for the next week or the next couple months. Volunteers get to them when they get to them. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 12:58, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Question about weird page in the Special: namespace

I know this is not related to editing Wikipedia, but I'm still curious about it.

While randomly browsing through the Special: namespace, I found this page that goes by the name of Special:LockDB. I clicked on it but the following text appeared:

You do not have permission to lock or unlock the database, for the following reason:

You are not allowed to execute the action you have requested.

I don't know what this means, but it seems like this is a "command page" (like, for example, the block page) which is used for locking/unlocking some kind of "database".

Now, I have no idea what this "database" is, but it seems quite important. It may also be why it's called Special:LockDB as I think the DB stands for DataBase.

Admins, please note: This seems like a page that could cause very serious after-effects on the encyclopaedia. I would recommend being careful when visiting the page.

Okay. Now that you're done reading, you can find the page here. Again, be careful. I hope to get a response soon. Usersnipedname (nag me/stalk me) 13:36, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Interesting! I don't know what this is either. Maybe an admin can light us on? Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 15:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Usersnipedname and Cocobb8: you can read more about this at mw:Manual:Lock_the_database. It basically would put Wikipedia as a whole into read-only mode, but the siteadmin permission required to use it isn't granted to anyone. In short: it's nothing to worry about, as it can't be used. :) Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

In that case, though, there's no point in keeping the page if everyone gets an error message when visiting it. Usersnipedname (nag me/stalk me) 16:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, do you know if visiting the page will instantly lock the database or clicking buttons will be needed to do the trick? And why would anyone need to use this? Usersnipedname (nag me/stalk me) 16:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Usernipedname. The clue is in where the documentation page is that Writ Keeper pointed you at: it's not a Wikipedia facility, it's a Mediawiki facility - that is, the software that Wikipedia runs on. There are thousands and thousands of wikis in the world running this software, many of them private to companies and organisations, and that is a facility that site admins may need. ColinFine (talk) 17:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

And I would add: Hopefully only in such contexts as (e.g.) making a snapshot for a backup... Autokefal Dialytiker (talk) 17:47, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

👍 Usersnipedname (nag me/stalk me) 17:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Are restrictions applied to new accounts?

I made a few edits after creating my account, but it looks like most of them were erased shortly afterwards. Do new accounts have restrictions on editing capabilities? La Dessalinienne (talk) 15:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Please see the history section of the pages you edited, on Pétion-Ville your edits were reverted for entering "too many problems introduced and close paraphrasing of websites" and on Delmas, Haiti your edits were reverted for adding unsourced content.

All content added to articles on Wikipedia requires citations from reliable, WP:SECONDARY secondary sources. Tagging @Bbb23 as they reverted your edits. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Should you add honorifics in Biographical articles?

I'm writing an article on a Japanese composer, however, I am not sure if I should use the Japanese honorifics (ie. -san), or if I shouldn't. Imoutofchoices (talk) 16:18, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Imoutofchoices - basically, no, please do not use honorifics. Please see MOS:HONORIFIC for the details - Arjayay (talk) 16:24, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Page for Robert d'Entremont -

Robert d'Entremont

I am working on setting up my wiki page but im having issues. this is what I would like to add

draft autobiography

Robert d'Entremont is a Canadian actor known for his work in both theater and television. He is currently portraying the character Keifer in the upcoming Apple TV project The Last Frontier. Born December 1st 1990, d'Entremont has established himself as a versatile actor with a range of performances across various mediums. Early Life and Education Robert d'Entremont's passion for acting was ignited during a high school improv competition, where he won the People's Choice award in 2007. He continued to pursue his interest in performing arts and in 2008, d'Entremont portrayed Tybalt in the regional French musical Romeo et Juliette at Th'Yarc Theatre in Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. After completing high school, d'Entremont was accepted into Concordia University's Theatre Performance program, where he honed his skills as an actor. He appeared in numerous productions during his time at Concordia, showcasing his talent and dedication to the craft. Upon earning his Bachelor of Fine Arts degree, d'Entremont furthered his training at the Tom Todoroff Acting Conservatory in New York City, where he expanded his repertoire with performances in off-Broadway plays at the New Comedy Theatre. Career Robert d'Entremont's career spans across theater, television, and film. He has accumulated over 20 IMDb credits, showcasing his versatility and range as an actor. Notable television appearances include roles in Patrice Lemieux 24/7, 30 vies, Mensonges, and Un tueur si proche. In addition to his television work, d'Entremont has starred in films such as Seasoned with Love, Maz, Midway, and the critically acclaimed Les Rois Mongols. In 2016, d'Entremont ventured into writing and producing his own content with the creation of the web series OPEN. The series, which he shot entirely from his iPhone, highlights d'Entremont's multifaceted talents as a writer, producer, director, and actor. Advocacy As an openly gay individual, Robert d'Entremont is dedicated to using his platform to support and advocate for the LGBTQ+ community. He is actively involved in projects funded by the Jasmin Roy Foundation, an organization focused on combatting discrimination against LGBTQ+ individuals in the workplace.

Rld33694 (talk) 17:08, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, RTld33694, and welcome to the Teahouse.

I'm afraid that, like many people, you have some fundamental misunderstandings about what Wikipedia is. We do not "set up pages" here, as though it were social media: we "write encyclopaedia articles", which summarise what independent reliable sources say about a subject.

If there is enough independent reliably published material about you to establish that you meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then there could be an article about you.

However, you are strongly discouraged from trying to write it yourself. If there is an article about you, whoever writes it, it will not belong to you, it will not be controlled by you, it will not be for your benefit except incidentally, and it will not necessarily say what you want it to say: please see an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. It will based on what people wholly unconnected with you have published about you, not on what you or your associates say or want to say.

Beyond that, I would point out that we delete or decline dozens of attempted articles every day (not all of them attempted autobiographies), when the editors have plunged into the challenging task of creating a new article without first having learnt how Wikipedia works.

My advice to you is

1. Forget about writing an autobiography. If you are notable (in Wikipedia's sense) somebody will eventually write an article about you.
2. If you want to be part of creating this great cooperative resource, spend some months improving existing articles, and learning about Wikipedia's principles.
3. Then, if there is a subject not covered on which you do not have a conflict of interest, read your first article and try creating a draft.

ColinFine (talk) 17:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

One more point - you have written your autobiography on your user page: this is not appropriate. A user page is a place for sharing information about you as a Wikipedia editor. A limited amount of biographical information is acceptable, but it must not appear to be trying to be an article. See UPYES. ColinFine (talk) 17:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Uploading Front Cover of Book

There used to be an "Upload" button but it has disappeared.

Am I allowed to upload image of such a front cover? ----MountVic127 (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, MountVic127.

You can usually use an image of a book cover in an article about that book (but not usually elsewhere). Please read WP:NFCC carefully, and work out precisely what is the justification for using that non-free image (I'm assuming that the cover is non-free: they usually are).

Then you can upload it to Wikipedia (not to Commons) using the WP:Upload wizard, picking "upload a non-free file" and giving the justification as you go through the process. ColinFine (talk) 21:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Visual Editing vs Source Editing

Dear Wikipedians,

I have a fair amount of edits, and almost all of them are in the Visual Editor. What is the difference between the Visual Editor and the Source Editor? Is one more powerful/superior than the other? Is there a reason to use one over the other?

Sincerely,

MekuMeku216 MekuMeku216 (talk) 19:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Whichever one you prefer. I use both equally. Cremastra (talk) 20:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Friend Hello,

So basically the visual editor tool works like front-end tool,where you don't always needs to put code and very simple for non-programmer or somebody who is not aware of coding.

However the source editor tool required to put back-end infos like coding languages and signs like "{{<<" and that's what makes all the difference.

Have a nice day.KEmel49 (talk) 20:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, MekuMeku216. Both editors do the same job, but they approach it in different ways. The Visual Editor is much newer, and people who are used to WYSIWYG interfaces tend to prefer it, whereas people (like me) who have been editing Wikipedia for many years often prefer the source editor.

There are some rather specialised operations which the Visual Editor cannot do, or cannot do properly, so occasionally you need to go into the Source Editor; but for most editing, either is equally good. ColinFine (talk) 21:04, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@MekuMeku216: Welcome to the Teahouse! I find the VisualEditor makes it easier for some things such as updating tables as easily as in Excel and moving images via drag and drop. Some of its limitations are listed at Wikipedia:VisualEditor. GoingBatty (talk) 02:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

MekuMeku216, here is my opinion: The source editor is fully functional, highly flexible and not at all difficult to learn. Just spend 15 minutes reading WP:CHEATSHEET. The WYSIWYG Visual editor is available for those who want to make a quick, basic edit but there are many things it cannot do. Personally, I do not like software tools that are not fully functional, so I use the source editor despite not being a professional programmer. My reason is that it works very well. Cullen328 (talk) 08:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Can i get suggestion on the article

Draft:Yusuph Kileo GMako6 (talk) 20:41, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello GMako6 and welcome to the Teahouse. We prefer to use Wikilinks when possible, rather than URLs, and certainly more than shortened URLs.

Your draft used to have some references and now it has none.

Please see WP:your first article advice. Find suitable sources, write based only on what they say. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 20:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Note also that your text must be written from a WP:Neutral point of view (which will be easier if you are basing the whole of the content on what independent sources say about the subject). Not a single word of your "Conclusion" section belongs in a Wikipedia article. ColinFine (talk) 21:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Creating a wikipedia for an Actor

Hello, I'd like to create a new Wikipedia page for the Actor Ras-Samuel who's currently starring in the new Planet of the Apes franchise. I notice he's the only one who doesn't have one yet.

Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes

How do i do it? Teamluffy (talk) 22:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

OP already blocked for advertising. -- Hoary (talk) 23:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

How do we know if information on Wikipedia is true?

Like LITERALLY? Fives Collariums (talk) 03:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Fives Collariums and welcome to the Teahouse. All information on Wikipedia is sourced with reliable references and unsourced content may be removed at any point. CanonNi (talk) 03:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's not true that all information on Wikipedia is sourced. Lots of our articles contain unsourced material, some of which is likely incorrect. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:42, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

An excellent description of Wikipedia is that it's the world's best source of sources. All content is supposed to be supported by reliable sources, which you can click on to read yourself. That way you can make your own judgment on the credibility of content. But most of it is pretty darned accurate. HiLo48 (talk) 03:06, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful information, I fully appreciate that, should I take down this question now that I've recieved an answer? Fives Collariums (talk) 03:12, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

No, Fives Collariums, please leave it up. -- Hoary (talk) 03:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Answered questions will be automatically archived after 2-3 days. Please don't remove it manually. CanonNi (talk) 03:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

While randomly browsing through Teahouse questions, I came across this one and realized that it would be quite easily misinterpreted to imply that any source found in a Wikipedia article is necessarily considered to be a reliable source. This is actually a very reasonable inference, it's just not true, and there are multiple reasons this might be the case. For instance, it might have been from a source that was considered RS at the time the source was cited, but which was subsequently determined to no longer be RS. It could be that the source is RS for some types of content but not for other types of content. And last but hardly least, the source may have been added even though it wasn't considered RS at the time it was added. So you can't just go look and see that other articles use a source and therefore assume that it's okay for you to use that source. Fabrickator (talk) 08:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Fives Collariums Please see WP:TRUTH. Wikipedia doesn't necessarily claim that the information presented is "true", only that it can be verified. Only you can decide what is "true" for you. 331dot (talk) 08:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Yup, humans don't know the Absolute Truth. Ideally, Wikipedia renders the truth according to WP:CHOPSY. tgeorgescu (talk) 08:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

The best way to get a consensus for a possibly controversial change of a template?

So a month ago I started a discussion on what to do with Template:Late night television in the United States in its talk page, which included what shows counted in the section, etc. I notified the relevant Wikiprojects as well. Unfortunately, only one person responded, and that's not enough to form a consensus. What else can I do to get people to join the discussion, since the new option discussed included moving the template, and that could be controversial? (Sorry if this is canvassing.) Spinixster (trout me!) 04:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Seymour Matthews

You say you cannot add my article to WIKIPEDIA until it is edited. Edited in what way? 31.185.201.102 (talk) 07:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Seymour Matthews has no sources, which is not permitted. Please read Your first article. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 07:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. If you created a Wikipedia account, it would be much easier to communicate with you. I assume that you are talking about Draft:Seymour Matthews. That draft is entirely unreferenced and cannot possibly be accepted into Wikipedia unless it is brought into compliance with Wikipedia's core content policies like Verifiability and No original research. Read and study Your first article, and comply with all of its recommendations. Cullen328 (talk) 08:00, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Section titles created, but all content needs references. David notMD (talk) 11:35, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. Like most editors who attempt to create an article before they have spent time learning how Wikipedia works, you have written your draft BACKWARDS. Writing an article begins with finding reliable, independent, sources: any time spent on anything at all before finding references is often totally wasted. ColinFine (talk) 13:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

i want to create two profiles of deceased people

Brigadier Rajendra Singh and his books ais visual artnd Bulbul singh and his visual arts Spockbuddha (talk) 08:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

See WP:YFA for a beginner's guide on creating an article. If the persons are recently deceased, also see WP:BDP for policies on biographical articles. CanonNi (talk) 08:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. We don't have "profiles" here, we have articles. Creatig a new article is one of the most challenging tasks to perform on Wikipedia, and as such it is highly recommended that you first gain experience and knowledge by editing existing articles in areas that interest you, to get a feel for how Wikipedia operates and what is expected of article content. Using the new user tutorial will help you as well. Once you get some experience under your belt, you will be much more likely to succeed in creating a new article, when you know about things like proper sourcing, notability, tone, and style.

However, if you wish to attempt to create an article now, you may use the Article Wizard to create and submit a draft for review. You will first want to gather reliable sources to summarize(instead of writing the text first and then looking for sources) and review the definition of a notable artist. 331dot (talk) 08:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

How do I remove 'This article needs improvement'?

Hello, I am a newish editor that has just substantially improved the content on the entry on Benjamin Waugh including citations to the main sources. But how do I now remove 'This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources' ? Parc Hembise 10:04, 5 April 2024 (UTC) ParcHembise (talk) 10:09, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

See Help:Maintenance template removal. CanonNi (talk) 10:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, ParcHembise. The article Benjamin Waugh has major problems. Consider this sentence from the lead: He was an outstandingly brilliant, energetic and highly competent charismatic journalist, public speaker and organiser who was to change how the British public understood and valued childhood and was instrumental in securing Britain’s first legislation on children’s rights. That is over the top hagiography, which violates the Neutral point of view, which is a core content policy. Then, I noticed that a widely used reference was a book written by Waugh's own daughter, Rosa Waugh Hobhouse, which is not an independent source and certainly should not be cited for any lavish praise. George K. Behlmer is a more contemporary expert who wrote the listing for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, and I would neutrally summarize what he says, as opposed to what the loving daughter wrote back in 1913, a few years after her father's death. The references are a mess and should be cleaned up as well. Only then should you consider removing the maintenance tag. Cullen328 (talk) 18:15, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

You just need to familiarize yourself with wikitext so you’ll be able to identify the template within the code. Gickskizz (talk) 20:31, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

How should we deal with a lack of secondary sources?

Hello! I've read through Wikipedia articles for so long, and I appreciate the hard work all the editors do to make it all work. That's a reason why I'm dipping my toes into the editor side of WP.

The first thing I did on here is check through my university's WP article, and I noticed that several issues were present. On May 2022, the article was flagged for relying "excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject." I checked the edit article history, looked for what happened that May, and saw chunks of text deleted because they had no independent citations.

From my understanding of the rules, WP obviously prefers independent, third-person accounts of the facts. WP similarly does not appreciate "independent research" nor "advertisements", insofar as these are prone to bias and subjectivity. I might be wrong, but it seems as if the preferred way to write articles is to cite secondary references that are unassociated with the thing discussed.

I wholeheartedly agree with these rules, but I fear that a century-old institution would be left as a history stub. If editors cannot cite the institution's self-published historical account, what secondary references can we use? I'm willing to talk to local historians, but they either are a) teachers in the university that are not independent authors; b) sponsored authors of that self-published history; or, c) priests who are either dead or just made blogposts and not research.

This is a problem not unique to this one university, but to almost all universities in the Philippines. After all, no one really wants to write a history on a school that has its own history. Thank you so much for reading this far! RyanTahamid (talk) 11:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

RyanTahamid, has the university not been the subject of articles in newspapers or magazines, of book chapters, etc? This material doesn't have to be available on the web. (Indeed, it's probably not on the web.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:12, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Hoary, thank you for responding! Yes, the university has been the topic of articles in newspapers, but these may cover more contemporary issues, like current projects or events. I have reached out to a professor and they did say they wrote a historical review, but would that be considered independent if they come from the same university being discussed? RyanTahamid (talk) 12:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@RyanTahamid: you can cite primary sources, including ones close to the subject, to support purely factual information. For example, if the university's website says that they were founded in 1823 and their current rector/president/vice-chancellor/whatever is Prof. Jane Doe, we can take those as read. Whereas if their website says they are the best university in the world, we obviously cannot accept their word for that.

What primary sources (esp. non-independent ones) cannot be used for is to establish notability. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@RyanTahamid More detail at the policy for WP:PRIMARY sources, and what is mentioned on that page for secondary ones. Facts stated in primary sources are usually fine but their meaning must not be interpreted by Wikipedia editors. It is that interpretation which is the role of secondary sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:58, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing, @Michael D. Turnbull, thank you so much for responding! I will take this into consideration when drafting possible edit's to the university's article. Thank you! RyanTahamid (talk) 13:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@RyanTahamid Have you considered digging here?:[3][4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, thank you so much for this! This seems very promising and I will be sure to review them all for any references I may use. Thank you so much! RyanTahamid (talk) 14:26, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link to something only mentioned in another article

Hi, I wanted to add the disambiguation ODAC = Old Diorama Arts Centre as it is an acronym the arts centre commonly uses.

However there is no article with this title, but Old Diorama Arts Centre is mentioned in two existing Wikipedia articles (Diorama Arts Cooperative and The Diorama, Regent's Park) as the successor charity to the Diorama Arts Cooperative.

What is the best way to handle this, should I blue link to the Diorama Arts Cooperative page, or create a red link for Old Diorama Arts Centre on the two pages it is mentioned on, and link to that on the disambiguation page? Or something else?

I guess the obvious answer is to create a page for Old Diorama Arts Centre but that's a bigger endeavour for me being a relative beginner editor.

Thanks. Jennymulholland1 (talk) 12:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Jenny. Provided the abbreviation or acronym occurs in the target page, WP:DABACRONYM says that you may add it to the DAB page. I suggest adding the acronym in parenthesis after the full name in Diorama Arts Cooperative, and then adding the entry to the DAB page ODAC, in a form like:

• Old Diorama Arts Centre, former home of the Diorama Arts Cooperative

or whatever description would be most apt). ColinFine (talk) 13:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

3yo Merge and Split proposals on talk page still open

I went to fix a ref name issue and ended up spending a chunk of time in this article. I went to the talk page to check its rating to see if it needed a re-evaluation on rating, and found two old open merge and split proposals.

Merge proposal, last post in December 2020; based on the fact there's a split request 3 months later, I'd say the result was "Merge".

Split proposal, last post in April 2021.

How do I close these? OIM20 (talk) 13:11, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

See WP:CLOSE. CanonNi (talk) 13:13, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. As I understand that, there is no need. Much appreciated. OIM20 (talk) 14:43, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

CSD stats?

Is there some place where one can see user statistics related to pages listed for spledy deletion, for instance the number of pages tagged, and then effectively deleted? Kind regards 14 novembre (talk) 🇮🇹 13:55, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@14 novembre Yes, you can find it by typing the following in the search bar: User:[your username]/CSD Log Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cocobb8 Thanks for your answer, but I don't find anything like that. Can you help? Kind regards 14 novembre (talk) 🇮🇹 14:25, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@14 novembre, the subpage Cocobb8 linked to is created by Twinkle's CSD module - it won't exist on your account unless you're using that feature of Twinkle. 57.140.16.57 (talk) 15:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cocobb8 How can I attivate it? 14 novembre (talk) 🇮🇹 15:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not Cocobb8, but apparently all you need to do, @14 novembre, is enable Twinkle in the gadgets section of your main preferences page, then turn on the log in Twinkle's own preferences panel (Wikipedia:Twinkle/Preferences). 57.140.16.57 (talk) 16:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Cocobb8 @57.140.16.57 I did it, but I can't find the page? What's the problem? 14 novembre (talk) 🇮🇹 17:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@14 novembre It'll start recording your CSD from now on, but you won't be able to have your old ones unfortunately. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 17:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I need help

 Courtesy link: Draft:Nar, Azad Kashmir

Can you guys help me with any sources for Nar Azad Kashmir? Bally125 (talk) 14:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Archive.org has quite a few references to "Azad Kashmir" - you'll have to look through to see if they have what you want.

Semantic Scholar returned a lot as well. Again, you'll have to comb through it all to determine relevance. The scholarly papers not about the location itself may give you information on flora and fauna, as well as climate, depending on what there is. OIM20 (talk) 14:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Bally125 one of my favourite research tools is the wikipedia custom google search engine, and has a source mentioning the US embassy. hope this helps >:3 astral ▪️ he/him ▪️ >:3 15:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

citing personal info

→ Machine Girl (band)

ok context here, the lead singer of this band uses any pronouns and i want to add a efn to make a consistant pronoun, however I cannot find this citation anywhere but a reddit mentioned discord qna. are there any rules against this?? astral ▪️ he/him ▪️ >:3 15:10, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

To my knowledge, Discord would be disallowed as a source just because of the sheer difficulty of using it as such. As for Reddit though, if you look at WP:SOCIALMEDIA it does show that Reddit is allowed as a primary source. I would personally take this as if they did a Q&A in the regular format, where one posts an image of their face and them holding up a sheet of paper with their Reddit username there, it would probably be allowed. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

yeah, but it's just other users stating it, so i don't think it's viable. i thought it wouldn't be allowed since it wasn't them actually doing a qna and stating it. their instagram might say something but i don't have access to look at those things bcz school pc astral ▪️ he/him ▪️ >:3 16:13, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Stany Van Wymeersch

Recently, since Stany VW publishes mostly in English too, I thought of translating his page from Dutch into English. Searched some help pages on Wikipedia. Found something simple, but it didn't really work.

The English Wikipedia formatting pages are less user-friendly as the Dutch. So I created a draft page in English on the Dutch page.

I noticed that pretty soon there were problems with the manual entries for newspapers and magazines. So I left those out and kept the online pages with references to Stany Van Wymeersch. By editing the source text, I was able to get rid of some error messages and after some time thought it was pretty ok. Just a translation with reasonable references anyway. The links to well-known places and people also appeared quickly. Yet, via an Estonian Wikipedia Writer, a notification of: "orphan" ', links, and listed sources not reliable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stany_Van_Wymeersch

I checked everything again, corrected some text in English and thought it was ok now. Mistakenly, I manually deleted the error message.

A short time later, of course, it reappeared. I sorted the references to Websites again and added a few.

But I wouldn't know what else to do. The references have all been checked by me and Stany Van Wymeersch does get mentioned on the websites. Sometimes you have to scroll, but still. The information I posted has been verified in Dutch and the links in English and Estonian are also ok.

Doesn't this Est know Stany Van Wymeersch. As an 'orphan', I understood that there must be other articles with his name in them, but that is not always the case for other people on wikipedia either.

Can you give me some more explanation or some help, as you may understand that this can be very frustrating.

Kind regards,

Bart Tettelin

Translated with DeepL.com (free version) Tettelin Bart (talk) 15:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I can't find any instances of Stany Van Wymeersch mentioned anywhere on Wikipedia outside of the article made on him. The page is an orphan and that probably won't be fixed, which is fine. It isn't a death knell, nor is the lack of ability to verify the reliability of some sources. I'll have a quick look at the sources to make sure they're actually fine. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I've had a quick look and to be honest I found a lot of the citations to be lacking. I'm going to be looking to replace them where possible. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for verifying the sources. Tettelin Bart (talk) 16:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Is there a way to monitor and get notified whenever a specific user/IP edits?

So there are a few scenarios where I find a vandal and they haven't gotten to the point where they should be blocked, but I can't just leave them as they could do some more vandalism which may not be caught. Right now I just let their edit history stay in the background and I reload after a while to see if they are vandalising anything else, but is there any way for me to get notifications for those specific users? Tube·of·Light 15:51, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

You needn't be so particular about specific individuals most of the time. It's not your job to prevent every bit of vandalism before it happens. If you're really concerned, just bookmark their contributions history. Remsense诉 16:09, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

A question about references

Hello Wikipedians, I googled my question and found this page via University of Texas at Arlington (https://libguides.uta.edu/wikipedia/advanced-skills).

Is this the right place to ask some basic questions about Wikipedia editing? Benevolent Bureocrat (talk) 17:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

• Sure, User:Benevolent Bureocrat, kind of depends on the question but it's a good place to start. Drmies (talk) 17:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Reporting editors asking for money

Hey everyone,

How do you report wiki editors that are soliciting money to do edits on pages? StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 18:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you talking about @Discospinster and @Badadms? If so, do you have any proof of this at all? I can see you've left messages on their talk pages saying "This person is involved in soliciting fees to edit and publish wikipedia pages against wikipedia's guidelines" CommissarDoggo^Talk? 18:45, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I was approached in linkedin by someone presenting themselves as James Nicoloas, claiming they are a wikipedia editor and for a fee would get the draft page Lee Povey published

Then that person got my phone number and messaged me saying the page was published and they would revert it back to a draft page if I didn't pay them (which has happened)

The people editting the page while this was happening were @Discospinster and @Badadms and @Theroadislong StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 18:56, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

StainlessSteelRodentia, please read WP:SCAM. It is commonplace for scammers to impersonate experienced editors. Cullen328 (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Please take greater care with your accusations I have never edited that draft and have NEVER requested money from anyone to edit Wikipedia. Theroadislong (talk) 19:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

From the page revision history

"The draft has been approved by Theroadislong moved to namespace" StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

This was exactly at the time I was being messaged saying the draft would be approved StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Badadms has previously been informed about their improper page moves, see here. They previously stated that @Wikishovel had been approving these moves. Now it seems as if they're saying Theroadislong has been doing this. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:09, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

It's the fourth time my name's been taken in vain by a sockfarmer. Nothing to do with me, but thanks for the ping. Wikishovel (talk) 19:14, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I moved it to draft because there was some discussion on the talk page that suggested it was not ready to be published (due to notability issues). ... discospinster _talk 19:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

StainlessSteelRodentia, as for Discospinster, that editor has 20 years of experience and has made over 400,000 edits. Cullen328 (talk) 19:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

This was done at the EXACT time I was being asked for money to keep the page published and told it would be taken off if I didn't pay. Seems incredibly suspicious as you had neevr edited the page before StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I categorically did NOT accept this draft as a quick look at the history will confirm I have however just declined it. Theroadislong (talk) 19:13, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

curprev 22:34, 4 April 2024‎ Badadms talk contribs‎ m 10,339 bytes 0‎ Badadms moved page Draft:Lee Povey to Lee Povey: The draft has been approved by Theroadislong moved to namespace undothank

this is the history note further down the page

It would seem Badadms is using your name in vain then? StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:20, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Most likely. They've previously moved pages, stating that various different users such as WikiShovel (as stated above), Theroadislong, @Mikeblas and a user by the name of Peter Walker - can't find them so I assume they don't exist.

To anyone that has actually used the process in the past, would this warrant taking to WP:ANI? CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely. I'll open a thread there momentarily. MrOllie (talk) 19:31, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. The fact they've done this with multiple different high profile users, have previously been informed that they shouldn't be doing this, failed to respond to that and continue to do this is, understandably, quite worrying given the topic of this conversation. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Report opened at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Badadms_and_moves_out_of_draft MrOllie (talk) 19:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I've unfortunately been drawn into this issue again. What must I do to clear my name in response to the ANI that you've opened? -- Mikeblas (talk) 20:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh, no, there's nothing you need to do at all. I was simply tagging you to inform you that your name had come up, which seemed pertinent. I'd already done the same for other users who had their name come up.

The user has already been blocked under an SPI. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 20:57, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

OK, thank you. -- Mikeblas (talk) 21:02, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

It came up when I was reviewing recent edits so I looked into it since it was in the wrong place (as Wikipedia:Lee Povey instead of the article space), not suspicious at all. ... discospinster _talk 19:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification.

As you might understand it seems so odd to have people approving and disapproving at the same time a scammer is messaging me trying to extort money from me

I apologize if I have incorrectly accused you and @Theroadislongas being involved with them StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

oops @Theroadislong StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the apology. ... discospinster _talk 19:56, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

The only edit Theroadislong has made to Draft:Lee Povey was their draft decline, after they'd commented above. You can verify this here. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I can see now they were named but didn't actually do the approval. StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 19:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

So from what I can see this is what the draft's move history looks like:

1. The page was created in mainspace by ZedArtify on 15 January.
2. The page was moved into draftspace by Rosguill on 21 March.
3. The page was moved into mainspace by Badadms on 4 April, stating that The draft has been approved by Theroadislong moved to namespace.
4. The page was moved into projectspace by Badadms about 15 minutes later.
5. The page was moved back into draftspace by Discospinster about 7 minutes later.

Badadms, would you care to comment on your moves falsely claiming that other users have approved of drafts? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

• You all may be interested in Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ASHkins20. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:43, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

  Are you still adding content to that report? I'll quite happily add the information from this conversation to there in the comments if not. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:47, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

  I did add a link back to this discussion. I've done I think all I can do for now, but feel free to add more info if you have it. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:58, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

  Nah, if it links back here then that's all I'd really want to add, as it includes everything about their past with suspicious page moves and using respected editors as a way to add more validity.

  All I can hope is that @StainlessSteelRodentia didn't actually pay anyone anything, that'd be a win in my book. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 20:06, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Badadms has now been blocked, thanks to Ivanvector. Thanks for bringing this our attention, StainlessSteelRodentia. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure, and sadly my naivety did have me pay them $150, then they kept requesting more.... Lesson learnt! StainlessSteelRodentia (talk) 20:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Creating a new template

Hi! I am considering creating some new single-issue user warning templates. I know that for articles there is the Article for Creation process to help with checking that articles are useful. Is there an equivilent process for creating pages in the template namespace? QwertyForest (talk) 19:08, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi QwertyForest, I'm not aware of any. I'd recommend posting at Wikipedia talk:Template index/User talk namespace, where issues about user warnings are discussed, to solicit feedback on your ideas. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

American Wiki Editors (2)

Dear Colleagues: I have $800 taken by American Wiki Editors for creating wikipage of mine and notability articles, and they disappeared from website + emails + phone services + Whatsapp. Please help me, if there is any reliable person with whom i can work. There are a lot of websites for creating webpages, but I am now skeptical with all of them. I would prefer to donate $800 to charity for a good cause. Thank you so much. Regards IRF Daichoo (talk) 19:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Have you seen the replies to your query above, Daichoo? Cordless Larry (talk) 19:19, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Please read the responses you received when you posted this yesterday, at Wikipedia:Teahouse#American Wiki Editors. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Unable to post translated article to English Wikipedia

Hello! I translated the article about American actress Carmen Moore from French into English, and also added additional information/citations. However, I cannot make it public for some reason. Here is a link to the draft.

If there is something wrong with it, or something I can do to get it published, please let me know! Thanks! Greerble ^{ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ} 19:40, 05 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Greerble. I have added a header to your draft so that you can submit it for review. Note that Twitter is not normally acceptable as a source - see WP:TWITTER. ColinFine (talk) 19:52, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Colin!

Reviewing WP:TWITTER, it seems I've used it correctly as a source in this instance. I used a tweet from the subject of the article's Twitter account to verify her date of birth, which seems like it falls under the acceptable use cases. Should I change it? I'm not sure where would be a more reliable place to find this information. Greerble ^{ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ} 20:39, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greerble How does that tweet confirm she was born 1986? WP:ABOUTSELF is fine for WP:DOB, but if used, needs to be crystal clear. Also, DOB is nice to have but not necessary. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: It seems the tweet confirms her birthday but not birth year. Her age and month/year of death are listed in the first reference, so we can calculate her year of birth. GoingBatty (talk) 22:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Very well. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:02, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

That would have been great, except your translation isn’t accurate and has poor grammar. .rekcufyssup (talk) 21:58, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello! If you had used the eyes that God gave you to read my above post, you would have noticed where I said "and also added additional information/citations." I was not interested in creating a perfect 1:1 recreation of an underwhelming French article :) Greerble ^{ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ} 23:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greerble: If this draft becomes an article, you might want to consider making a copy of the image and cropping the other two people out of the photo, so the infobox shows a larger photo of Moore's face. GoingBatty (talk) 22:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - this is genuinely very helpful! Would I need to upload the cropped image to the

Wikimedia Commons before using it? Greerble ^{ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ} 23:48, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greerble The file is on Commons and there is a very good crop tool there that can be used. It has the advantage of getting the templates for the licensing of the derivative image correct. See c:Commons:CropTool Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

.... incidentally, IMDb is not considered a reliable source as it is user-generated: see WP:IMDb. It would help if you could find alternative sources for anything where you've used it. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Set state for Campainbox template for Lexington Alarm

Hello, I hope this is an easy one. I tried a couple of scenarios to set the state for the {{Campaignbox American Revolutionary War: Boston|state=expanded}} in the Lexington Alarm article, with and without the <noinclude></noinclude> parameters... and I tested it in my sandbox in this version. It stays expanded in my sandbox, but not in the article.

Following the instructions in Template:Navbox (there weren't any for the campaign box), I also tried {{Campaignbox American Revolutionary War: Boston|state={{state|expanded}}}}

No luck. Do you have any ideas?–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:47, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@CaroleHenson: Welcome to the Teahouse! There are some instructions in Template:Campaignbox, but it doesn't explain what values are valid for the |state= parameter. In the Lexington Alarm article, I changed {{Campaignbox American Revolutionary War: Boston|state={{state|expanded}}}} to {{Campaignbox American Revolutionary War: Boston|state={{state|expanded}} but that didn't work. Then, I edited Template:Campaignbox American Revolutionary War: Boston to include | state = {{{state|}}} and now the template is expanded in the Lexington Alarm article. I then checked the Battle of Bunker Hill article, and confirmed that the box is not expanded. Hope this is what you were looking for. GoingBatty (talk) 22:05, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey, aren't you something! That's perfect, GoingBatty Thanks so much.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Making tabs

Excuse me, I just made an account to help edit, but I don't know how to add tabs to an existing article. Can you please help me? 2601:48:C601:5550:74C7:D0FE:DEBA:13AF (talk) 21:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. You are currently not logged in to any account, as your edits are coming from your IP address. Page tabs aren't used in articles, as stated in the documentation for {{page tabs}}; what do you want to use them for? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:55, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, I was looking in the article The Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom, and I noticed it didn't mention the characters or any stats about them. I was just wondering if there was a way to add them in. 2601:48:C601:5550:74C7:D0FE:DEBA:13AF (talk) 03:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I found a list of Legend of Zelda characters, but is there a way to separate them into two categories? Breath of the Wild characters and Tears of the Kingdom characters? I'm just trying to make it the least amount confusing as possible, and to me it was very confusing. Thank you for your time! :) 2601:48:C601:5550:74C7:D0FE:DEBA:13AF (talk) 03:27, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Generally Wikipedia just uses sections. I would exercise discretion with the amount of detail though, as it could be considered fancruft that may run afoul of WP:NOTDATABASE. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

newspapers citations from newspapers.com?

My submission was rejected for lack of verifiable citations, yet all my citations are verifiable on newspapers.com and pgnewspapers.pgpl.ca. What more do you want? Gadavison95 (talk) 22:26, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Inga Andersen

@Gadavison95: I see that each citation has an error because you didn't define the |title= parameter with the title of each article, which would be helpful for verification. Could you please fix the citations? Pinging reviewer Brachy0008 for their comments. GoingBatty (talk) 22:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

also - edit conflict

I assume you are talking about Draft:Inga Andersen. I don't see that this has been resubmitted. Am I missing something?

I see that there aren't any titles for the newspaper articles. If you make clips of the article and put the article title in the clip's title box, you can get the fields populated using WP:Proveit. That's all I use anymore to create citations.

Does this help?–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:40, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

I added a source on the Draft that shows the kind of referencing that allows other editors to verify the references. BBQboffin^{grill me} 23:07, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

PGC and The Guardian are reliable (per WP:RSP) (something i canonically missed out on), found nothing about Montreal Gazette, LDM is a tabloid newspaper so it is unreliable, more comments later Brachy08 _(Talk) 00:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the London Daily Mirror is a tabloid, and Britain's tabloids aren't at all reliable. But what they are now doesn't determine what they were over half a century ago. (What were they then? I sense that they had more respect for accuracy, but I don't claim to know.) 126.158.131.21 (talk) 00:50, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

The kind of tabloid around the time of Andersen are called jazz journalism, or scandal sheets, which was sensationalist. Thus, tabloids around the time of her are generally unreliable in Wikipedia standards. Brachy08 _(Talk) 02:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Vancouver Province is a tabloid (unreliable), no mention of Newcastle Sunday in WP:RSP, Daily Telegraph is reliable, Evening Standard and NYDY are also tabloids (unreliable). According to WP:Notability (people), Andersen should have a significant roles or made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment. The only major role cited by a reliable source is the Jack and Jill thing. So yeah, you need to cite more major roles and it should pass. Brachy08 _(Talk) 02:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Don’t worry @Gadavison95, I know you can do this! (Failed drafts are normal, I experienced that before) Brachy08 _(Talk) 02:57, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

And if you are thinking of nominating it for good article status, remove the tabloid sources. Brachy08 _(Talk) 03:00, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I took a break from what I was working on to find the articles and add the titles, but in searching newspapers.com, I am not finding articles with dates in the citations in the article.

And, it's getting confusing to sort out big blocks of content where there are a number of no-title citations. It would be much easier at this point to remove the incomplete citations and then add references where they apply.

How about if I focus on the first section to get a good start?–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:00, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

You can slowly blow it all up to improve the article. Brachy08 _(Talk) 09:35, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Gadavison95. In addition to what's been posted above, the image you uploaded of Andersen to Commons to use in the infobox of the draft is most certainly not your own work and you shouldn't be claiming it as such; so, I've tagged it for speedy deletion. It's possible that image could be in the WP:PUBLICDOMAIN because of its date of first publication, but you should ask about it at c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright to see if that's the case; otherwise, it will need to be deleted from Commons. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

There are some better pictures in newspaper articles. If there's no free image, this could be loaded onto Wikipedia (not commons) under Non-free use rationale since it would be depicting a deceased person.–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:42, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

How do I mention a source again?

so like I was making a draft and then I wanted to reuse a source but I can’t find out how. It marks it as a whole new source. 48JcL48 (talk) 23:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

@48JcL48: Welcome to the Teahouse. You will want to read more on named references. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

If you are using the Visual editor, you can simply copy and paste references to get the same result. Ca ^{talk to me!} 03:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Microsoft Word problem - changing "====" to "============================" etc.

If you put a "====" or "----" at the beginning of a line, Word expands this to fill the whole width of the page. So far so good. The problem is that you cannot always delete the "----------------------------------------------------------------".

Help needed. ----MountVic127 (talk) 03:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

What does the problem have to do with editing Wikipedia? CanonNi (talk) 03:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I sometimes edit some text in MS Word, before copy-pasting it to Wikipedia.

Also some "Contact Us" procedures do not send a copy of this text back to the writer, so you loose all of it if you knock the wrong key. So better to edit the text in Word first. I have been caught by this bug too many times.

The Word file may also contain the long ruled line which separates sub-sections.

----MountVic127 (talk) 03:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Try switching to your sandbox for test edits. CanonNi (talk) 03:40, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

The problem was in the source viewer where it multiplies the "==" because there was a bug or glitch some sort. You can try switching to visual editing ‍ Shonyx 04:26, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

If you like to write material on your hard drive and then copy and paste it in, don't use a word processor such as Word, use a text editor. 126.158.157.73 (talk) 05:44, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Sfn question

On this page I have placed two volumes of a three-volume book series in the Works Cited section. I'd like to be able to create Sfn notes referencing both of them, but can't figure out how to do it, because both volumes have the same authors and publication year. Any thoughts? Wafflewombat (talk) 04:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

You can use the parameter |ref= to change what you have {{sfn}} point to, so you can have Author 20XXa, 20XXb, etc. as destinations for shortcites. See details at {{sfnref}}. If you need more help, let me know! Remsense诉 04:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Wafflewombat: I added {{sfnref}} to each volume in the Works Cited section. You can edit the footnotes accordingly to distinguish which are from Vol I vs Vol III. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 04:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Wafflewombat and welcome to the Teahouse. When there are multiple works by the same set of authors in the same year, add letters to the end of the year. The first volume would be 2000a, if 2000 is the year. The second would be 2000b, etc. See Template:Sfn#More than one work in a year for how to do this. StarryGrandma (talk) 04:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! I think I got it figured out. Wafflewombat (talk) 06:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Parentheses in page names for tribes/communities/ethnic groups

Suppose you are creating a page for a community (tribe, ethnic group, caste, etc.). Is it better to name the page with parentheses around the community type or not? For example, is X (tribe) or X tribe preferable as the name of the main article (with the other presumably being a redirect)? Is there a specific policy governing this, and if so, could someone link it?

Secondarily, whichever is preferred, what redirect category should the redirect page from the other one be filed under? Is {{R from alternative punctuation}} correct, or is there a better one?

Thank you. Brusquedandelion (talk) 05:42, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

In general WP:NATURAL applies here: as a rule of thumb, parentheses are often a last resort in an article title. So X people would be preferred in every case as far as I can imagine to X (people). Remsense诉 06:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)